Just a quick update to report on current events. CPS showed up at the girls' high school today. They interviewed all three girls individually and interviewed Sis twice. We were alerted by their presence thanks to one of our girls sending a text message.
Wifey headed over to the elementary school to pick up the little girls just in case CPS decided to head over there. There has been no sign of CPS at the elementary school... yet.
Wifey withdrew all three high schoolers today. We spoke in depth about home schooling with k12.com last night. We are one step closer to home schooling the teenagers. Believe it or not, they don't want to be home schooled... they say. But, they also don't realize that every time they report to us about something ridiculous that happened at their school, they are making the case even stronger to keep them home.
Like today, Wifey and I were informed that teachers are becoming more strict about letting students use the restrooms during class because "someone" is smearing blood and feces on the bathroom walls.
What the...? Ugh.
Anyway, the big girls are pulled out. School officials were even MORE apologetic today than during our meeting Tuesday. They swore nobody contacted CPS today. I believe it. CPS is just now responding to the school's call last week.
I finally called the school nurse myself and asked her for her side of the story. It was completely different than Administration's story. I think they threw her under the bus. She kept saying "I'm just a CNA, not a nurse" like it wasn't even her Scope of Practice to call the authorities. She said that, as a foster parent herself who had delt with CPS, she concluded Sis was NOT abused and that was why she excused herself from the whole situation early on.
I'd she lying? Who knows. Bottom line, we aren't going back to that school. But now, CPS is coming to my house Monday night to inspect our house and (my guess) to interview the three little girls.
The worst part : I'll already be up north. Monday is my first day of my new job. Wifey has to handle the CPS interrogation herself. My friend Mr Detective, who specializes in Child Abuse crimes, is coming over tonight to talk to us. I'm going to see if he can be here when the visit occurs.
This sucks. Any advice or words of encouragement greatly appreciated right now.
OJD
We have been though the same thing as you, but not with a school. A nosy person who should have kept to his own business. We had our kids taken away twice. It was hell for my wife and I. In the end the person who was "looking out" for the children and us, was the one trying to keep us apart. When the judge (we had to go to court) ruled in our favor the lady went back into the judges chambers and tried to screw us again. She wanted the kids to remain away from us. The judge again sided we us and told her let them sink or swim. Our lawyer saw her make a b line to the judges chamber he went too.
ReplyDeleteNow we keep to ourselves, we don't trust anyone. Our kids are all grown up and the youngest is 15. All great kids, but it put our family through hell, and tested our marriage. We feel more and more folks will turn to home schooling or online learning. Our youngest has home schooled online for the last 3 years. Hang in there my friend.
Originally my ex-wife had custody of our son of course, unless the Woman is a mass murderer or major meth-head no court ever gives the man custody. Yet very soon afterwards as the ex was out hitting the bars and doing drugs social services was knocking at my door even though they had of course put me down as an absent father on my Ex's word alone.
ReplyDeleteNow to the point. At first social services were crawling all up in my colon and business. They had made sure to make him a ward of the state before they let me have him and were denying me the right to home school him.
Well I brought the social services woman gifts and asked her out, she actually was pretty cute although a bit young for me. I never expected her to say yes but she couldn't help but be flattered. I also dusted off my secondary teaching certificate and wrote up a lesson plan. Because of the certification they really had no choice but to allow me to home school.
The key here is to game the system and then disappear. Within a very short time they will have a new target and forget all about you. Within a year I had full custody of my son and never heard from these people again. Now if they would have ever made the ex pay the 32K in child support she owed me I would have been super happy.
But I must stress do not ever let them hear anything out of you again. If one of your girls ever get's embroiled or comes to their attention again it will be infinitely worse.
Can you request that they reschedule when you are available to be there???? Or can you attend by phone if you have a speaker phone???? After seeing CPS get involved with grandkids after daughter's divorce, something you don't want especially with girls.
ReplyDeleteThey are sure pesistant!! They don't want to give up until they find something. Did anyone tell them that the only thing wrong with your daughter was a rash? Surely the nurse could have seen that!?!?!
ReplyDeleteGet a lawyer NOW and do not talk to these people unless he is present. This is more than serious. You could loose your children if you so much as blow your nose wrong. The CPS reports are completely subjective and the investigators are "spring-loaded" against parents. Do not voluntarily let them into your house unless your lawyer tells you to. Once inside they can peek into anything and everything. You need legal guidance NOW.
ReplyDeleteNot only would I have a lawyer present, I would record the entire meeting.
ReplyDeleteOJD,
ReplyDelete(captaincrunch)
Listen to the comments of "anon"
Don't let them into your house.
If you can get a lawyer.
I don't understand what this world is coming too.
I am glad I don't have any children. I never thought I would say that, but the legal system is designed to destroy families and marriages. More proof that our society maybe doomed long term.
Talk to Sis. Ask her who was pushing the "abuse" theory. And trust her response. Regardless at this point it doesn't matter who did it, it's been done and it's a mess.
ReplyDeleteDo you have a copy of the police report? Does your state allow you to know who called them?
They may get upset over the rash not being treated by a physician. Be prepared for them to insist on it.
They will probably also get upset over you pulling the girls out of school. Be prepared to show exactly what you are doing to ensure they are well schooled.
I know you're in the middle of moving which tends to make a house a mess but get it cleaned up and get the boxes out of any living areas. Be prepared to show proof that the move was already scheduled due to job issues so they can't push that it is to avoid them. And this may still be an issue with them.
Imagine the worst possible, most finicky and picky grandmother is coming to your house and prepare it to make her happy.
If they say they are closing the case, make sure to get it in writing. And make sure to stay in contact with them until you have it in writing.
The lawyer idea. That's up to you. I was advised not to get one as it would make things worse. I've seen it go either way for others. For me, it took over a year for them to close the case despite telling me that they found no grounds and me cooperating with 3 different home visits and one job visit, along with them visiting all my son's therapists.
If you can't be with your wife to deal with them then find another couple that you trust to be there to support her. There is no reason that she can't have someone else there. And yes, if possible to do so discreetly, record the meeting. You may have to check your state laws on recording folks. I was in a state that only needed one party to now that it was being recorded.
Expect, regardless of outcome, to get gagged about talking about it.
Most of all, keep calm. Good luck.
We had great success with Abeka for homeschooling. Check 'em out, see if it may work for your family. Our kids were high school age by the time we started homeschooling. Our only regret was not doing this sooner. Good luck whatever you choose to do.
ReplyDeleteHere's a couple of links:
http://www.abeka.com/
http://www.abekaacademy.org/
You are now in the SYSTEM. Once you are in it is very hard to get out. They (the SYSTEM) need to justify their existence and will hound you. My suggestion is to get a lawyer for this. Then nullify your marriage license and birth certificates for the kids. By having these it automatically gives the State authority over your children. Read the fine print on both documents. They are issued by Dept. of Commerce. Your status has been changed from a Natural and Free Person to someone regulated by Trade, Commerce, and Industry. Do some DD on this. DO NOT LET THEM IN YOUR HOUSE. Playing nice with these people NEVER works in your favor. Ever notice THEY let the a**holes go and make examples out of the people who play nice? Good Luck
ReplyDeleteIdaho Bill
OJ -
ReplyDeleteThis is what your attorney is for. Have no further contact with them and don't discuss this with anyone else. Refer all calls to your lawyer.
Don't make your attorney's job more difficult - STOP posting about this online.
Granny Miller is correct, lawyer up and stop posting about it, because I will bet that both the school and the cps are aware of your blog, though they may not admit it.
ReplyDeletePrayers going up for your family and you. Make sure you and your family are praying about this together, all of you. Mathew 18:20.
ReplyDeleteMake sure the lawyer you get is experienced in this. All lawyers are NOT created equal.
K12.com is awesome for you and the kids. The kids learn at their own pace, but they learn very well. My second grade grand daughter is starting some 4th grade subjects right now, in other subjects she is still in 2nd grade. We all learn different things at different paces.
Agree with Granny Miller. Also, make sure that house is as spotless as it can be. Load up your preps and haul them North with you when you go this weekend. Do NOT have them around the house or the garage. ALSO - find a lawyer who specializes in family law and have a chat with them before you leave. In the meantime, clean that house, and then clean it some more.
ReplyDeleteI hope you are moving out of state. You are now toast. Get a lawyer and do not let them in your house. Take the kids and MOVE NOW; leave no forwarding address. Get a cell phone that is throwaway. Make sure nobody follows you. May God be w/ you. Do not be open anymore w/ what is going on. Keep to yourselves. Enough said.
ReplyDeleteGetting a lawyer is a good idea but advising anyone to refuse access to social services is asking for immediate legal trouble. They have a mandate and they can now claim probable cause for justifiable entry. Social services and child abuse issues are not handled like typical law and they can physically take your children or whatever and sort the thing out later so being confrontational at all will only get you in more hot water immediately.
ReplyDeleteThese people can get away with many more rights violations than other types of LEOs because of the minor status of the children. Also like other LEO violations, needing a warrant etc., you maybe able to win a case but you cannot physically block them from illegal searches or entry. You can only go and press charges and scream about it after the fact.
Also I don't mind being the guy who brings up possibilities others will refuse to entertain, even if it pisses someone off that I would mention it. I would be really careful here because the timing of this thing is very suspicious. You have mentioned before how clingy one particular daughter can be to boyfriends and moving is never met with great happiness by teenagers in particular.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure everything is as it seems and all parties are being truthful? Some of the rules you have in place could very well be twisted into what today's liberals and social services call abuse. Refusal to allow socialization, communication, etc. I am not saying it is mind you but my view is not what is important here.
We have home schooled since 1991. You can successfully educate your children with excellence. Our kids have great jobs, morals and Christian values (I only say that to encourage you as I know you have a similar faith!). In America, the parents still have rights to their children, although some school districts think they own your children. I highly recommend that you call and join Home School Legal Defense Association on Monday morning 6AM your time, and 9AM in Virginia time. Their number is: (540) 338-5600. Be SURE to call them and join Monday by the end of the day!! You may pay about $100 but you and all other members will have legal support for one flat annual fee. Home schooling is legal in all 50 states. If you get a knock on your door, you can say, "Wait right there, while I call my attorney!" Then you do not have to let them in or inspect your children. I would also recommend curriculum APART from the state. I believe K12 is funded by and connected to the state. Their teachers oversee your children and HSLDA may not be able to help you then. It may be free curriculum, but I want the freedom to choose the curriculum. If you want to 'sever the ties that bind you', then choose your own curriculum. I can recommend a few here: Saxon or Teaching Textbooks for math, Apologia for Science (General Science, Physical Science or Biology, all Christian based). And I like Sonlight Curriculum (http://www.sonlight.com/aboutus.html) for history and literature (several children can do same level together). I am using Core 100 American History and Apologia Biology and Saxon Algebra for a 15 year old. You may love reading some of the Sonlight books out loud to your children and learn along with them. It's fun! I also recently started using Lee Binz to help me get fabulous high school transcripts. She saved $184,000 in college tuition for her 2 boys. (http://www.thehomescholar.com/) I can call her or email weekly in the Gold Care Club for questions. Also, there are many other ways to homeschool. Our Idaho 'friend' also had a post in her archives about the books she uses and that looked great, too! Call HSLDA, call HSLDA Monday morning sharp!!! K in OK <><
ReplyDeletemy prayers are with you.
ReplyDeleteI would follow the advise of the above posters and get a lawyer at least involved now.
Also document, document, document, get copies of EVERYTHING and keep them safe. If possible get some type of official statement from the nurse.
Y'all are in my prayers.
ReplyDeleteYou are wondering if the nurse is lying. Refering to Sis' account:
"According to Sis, this nurse continuously asked LEADING questions like:
"Does your father not like your boyfriend? Is that why he hit you?"
"Did you get in trouble for receiving detention? Is that why he hit you?"
"It's okay. This is a safe place. You can tell me."
And it went on and on, Sis says."
As I said with Queenie (I did see your response that she does tend to exaggerate a lot... maybe this experience, with some help from you, will help her see that leaving her exaggerations behind and just telling it as it is might be a better policy), unless Sis tends to exaggerate a lot, you've got to believe her.
I have been through these CPS interviews myself, when I was 14. They ask questions like that. There were two of them interviewing me the first time. I maintained that we were not abused. Once, when I said something positive about my parents, one of them (29 years later, I still remember her name) demanded, "Who told you to say that?!"
Uh... no one did. I'm 14; I can think and formulate my own opinions of my parents.
Unfortunately, my little brother found this to be a fun ride, and told a bunch of lies. They ignored me, believed him, and combed through our house looking for evidence to support their already-determined position. Of course they found "evidence", because they weren't interested in the truth.
I found out what the so-called evidence was later. My word... if all that was evidence of child abuse, then everyone is guilty of it. Of course, they were following my brother's faulty account of things, so they were bound to come to weird and crazy conclusions... because they wanted my parents to be guilty, not because they wanted to find out whether they were or not.
Believe Sis. Unless she frequently misrepresents things, believe her, not the nurse. One of the most insanely frustrating things about the whole experience to me was that my parents were the only ones who would listen to me. If they hadn't believed what I told them about how it all went down, I don't know how I would have gotten through the whole thing.
Please be careful, y'all.
Since you're staying in the same state, especially. Be very, very careful. When my parents finally got my brother back (took longer than for me), CPS continued to threaten them. They immediately put him in an out-of-state boarding school where the state couldn't touch him. That made my brother feel "dumped". Just an awful situation with repercussions to this day.
Sorry for rambling... I always get so worked up about these situations. I seriously am on the brink of crying right now, I'm so concerned for y'all. I'll be praying.
What a sad day this is.....we are running scared of our own government and their ability to bring destruction to our homes and families. How did this happen? It slipped away one day at a time while we were busy sipping our Starbuck's and spending money we didn't have. We have now become the sheep and not the sheep dog. May God protect you and your family from the wolves disguised as sheep dogs.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely a lawyer. when CPS entered our house intending to bully us, they did a complete double take when they saw our lawyer there. Needless to say, the conversation was much more pleasant. Wish you were moving out of state. I'd say go, now, tonight. Can your doctor friend be with your wife and document the previous rashes?
ReplyDeleteForget about homeschooling for now; get a lawyer & have them at the house on Monday so the lawyer can tell you what is or is not legal for them to ask or do. It may not be legal for them to search your house without a warrant. Take the girls' profiles off of this blog & keep them off. Teenager social media can be nasty.
ReplyDeleteGood Lord #OJD, what a cluster*uck. Our prayers are with you. My hubby has dealt with CSP in the past. Dont let them in the house w/o witnesses. Getting a lawyer might be a good recommendation. I would get that school nurse on record, written preferably. If it isn't documented it didnt happen as you know being in the medical field...DOCUMENTDOCUMENTDOCUMENT!names and credentials of everyone u come in contact with!
ReplyDeleteThis must be an awful situation to be in. I can't even imagine. You have gotten a lot of great advice. I'm surprised you haven't acted on one in particular. Anonymous suggested you take the girls profiles off the blog and keep them off. I have never understood putting their faces on here in the first place. Lots of oddballs troll the Internet. Good luck to your family.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBe very careful OJD. This CPS "investigation" needs to be your #1 priority even over your new job !!! I was a foster parent for a number of years and have seen the system and CPS at work and if people knew how things REALLY worked, they would be horrified.
ReplyDeleteCPS investigators are poorly paid and are usually busybodies who hate having to deal with the druggies and scum that they have to investigate and live for bothering middle class folks. Forget all about your rights and constitutional protections---she WILL come into your home and snoop and if you piss her off she WILL take your kids even if the evidence is BS. If you refuse her entry, she'll be back with the cops---they don't need a warrant they have probable cause for child abuse RIGHT NOW even though it is total BS.
The reason the school is being nice is that they are afraid of a lawsuit---play on that---you need to get the best family law lawyer that you can and they need to be there when the investigator shows up. Understand the system--they get their kicks messing with people with no money but if you have a good lawyer and can make trouble for them, then they'll go by the book and she won't take the kids without real evidence.
Also absolutely listen to Sis--- that nurse was lying her ass off to you. Those questions she asked are straight out of the textbook on how they are trained. Also be aware that they will twist the kid's words to make innocent things abuse. For example a little girl was asked how her parents treated her and she said that "they didnt treat her right" because she had a curfew----this equaled abuse !! God forbid if you or your wife have ever spanked the kids---instant abuse and they'll take them.
Please OJD don't take this lightly or as just annoyance---this is deadly serious and you need to treat it as such. That woman can leave with your kids if she wants and you could not get them back for weeks or months when you see a judge. The trauma could be huge for your kids.
I'm praying for you and get a lawyer ASAP !!!
This is a very sad and stressful situation for your family to be in and I can only imagine how scary it must be for any parent to have to worry about something like this. Although this is just my opinion, it seems to me the worst thing you can do in this difficult time is over share your family's unfortunate situation with a large group of strangers on the internet. Your children need protection right now and I'm afraid this is just not anonymous enough. I would be more concerned with tying up loose ends at home and focusing on keeping your children and wife calm through the interview with CPS than documenting everything that happens for a group of people who have no business giving a complete stranger advice anyway. It's quite pathetic the responses you've received over this issue and seems to me you have far too many paranoid, anti government survivalists trying to put their two cents in. No, our government may not be in the best shape right now, but I can guarantee you if suspicion of child abuse occurred with your family in another country, you may not have the opportunity to prove what a loving and caring home you have. Try to remember that when you or your bloggers are bashing this nation and the brave and intelligent leader behind it. CPS may not be a perfect system but the bottom line is they are there to protect innocent children and that is something that must be respected. Whether the nurse lied, the principal, even your daughter, it is strictly protocol to check on a family when this sort of incident arises. I for one know that I would have no problem opening up my home to CPS if ever need be. If you do not abuse your children you should have nothing to worry about. With that said, I personally believe your children and yourself, and from what I can tell from your sweet and loving posts about your girls, you and your wife should get through this just fine. Try to stay grounded and not let too many wild ideas fill your head. You made the right choice heading back to AZ and taking a job that can secure a steady income for your family. A farm somewhere down the line when your girls are grown and living on their own just may be perfect for you and your wife.
ReplyDeleteHoping everything goes well with the CPS visit and you can all be on your way to a more peaceful place very soon.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIt is very obvious that you have never dealt with CPS or the system before or you would never say that "I would have no problem opening up my home to CPS if ever need be. If you do not abuse your children you should have nothing to worry about."
Many people commenting on here have real life experience dealing with the system, family courts, and CPS--including me. In my case I am a 40 something professional with a Master's degree and my ex wife and I were foster parents for a number of years and adopted 3 kids that were wards of the state. I could tell you story after story of the injustices that I have seen in the system and how broken and dysfunctional it is. In addition, ask any social worker about how messed up the system is and unless they are fresh out of school, they will tell you.
So no, it is not paranoia from some crazy preppers and anti-government people. I love my country, but I and many on here commenting know the reality of how things REALLY work, not how they are supposed to work. Hopefully OJD will get a good CPS investigator who will see that all is well and that will be it. BUT if they get someone who is a jerk, they could really cause trouble.
Enough said and I'm praying that this will all blow over and I thank OJD for being so open and honest about things,
Kids who have been involved in the government school system (or any classroom situation) never want to homeschool. They are too tied to their peer group which, of course, is part of the problem (Socialization?, they say. To which I say, socialization is the exact reason I homeschooled!) But, you know I'm a homeschool advocate and am cheering for you! The hardest part about homeschooling is making the initial decision to just do it!
ReplyDeleteAtorney attorey attorney. whatever it takes, have one there on scene when they show up.
ReplyDeleteI am starting to suspect that they are viewing your blog.
sorry just now realized that the visit has come and gone.
ReplyDeleteas a mom of 6 who has done public school, private school and home school my vote is home schooling. (after prayer of course!)
ReplyDeleteMy son is a senior this year and started taking classes at the local community college. Why waste time at high school when you can do dual enrollment and get college credit?
The girls will adjust to home schooling. It's more like real life than schooling with a peer group anyhow! God bless!